Ask A Swinger – Boundaries and Broken Rules at the First Soft Swap

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Q. Hello guys, I want to start by saying that I enjoy your podcast and I find it very informative; it really helps new couples to understand the lifestyle.

With that being said my girl and I had our very first swinging experience last Saturday. We had met another couple on a swinger site and we really liked them. After chatting back and forth for a while we decided to meet up. We went out to eat and then back up to their place.

As we got to know them I realized that I wasn't really into his wife, but my girl was making a connection with her husband. Even though I wasn't really into the female I really wanted to have the experience. I did feel the jealousy monster a few times during that night but at the same time it was exciting.

Well, after like 5 hours of talking and drinking I realized that I had to make a move or there was not going to be any action! I worked my magic and then we all end it up naked. It was play time! Then I talked to them about our rules: we are a soft swap couple and we didn't want kissing on the lips. As far as I understood everything else was fine. (I know the kissing rule is silly but, that was something that we didn't want to share.)

Next thing you know I was playing with his wife and the situation was starting to get very involved between us. I keep looking at my girl with this guy and I noticed that the two of them were making a connection, and I thought they were about to have a good time. To be honest with you I was enjoying them better then I was enjoying his wife. They had a connection, and this was our first time, I never saw my girl flirting and being like that with another man!

Meanwhile I was having fun with his wife even though there was no chemistry; I was enjoying pleasing her and knowing that my girl was watching. As his wife started to go down on me we were interrupted by her husband; he asked me if it was ok to kiss my girl on the mouth. I pause for a second then I said no to him, he then said to me, “because your girl wants to really kiss me and she can't do it because she's not allowed.”

I didn't know what to say. I felt stupid, so I asked her if she wanted to kiss him and if so then to bypass the rule. She didn't say yes or no, it was more like “whatever”, so that put the pressure back on me. The kissing rule was more her rule then it was mine, but I knew that changing rules during an encounter was wrong. But I agreed to change the rule, I didn't want to kill the night and if my girl was ok with it then she must be having a good time.

Then, after we agreed to kissing his wife stepped in. She took control of the situation and told us not to break our rules. I thought it was nice that she did that. That being said, we jumped back into action. Since that my head wasn't right inside I felt angry about him asking about something that is was in the rules from the beginning and mad at my girl for not taking control of the situation. I tried to focus and get back to where I had left off with his wife and then, I took a glanced at them (my girl and him) and I saw him still trying to kiss her.

He was licking her lips as she was pulling away in a flirtatious way. And well, Yeah I then lost it! I say to him “Bro! You can't respect a simple rule you fucking killing me!”

And that was the end of my first experience as a swinger. I was angry at so many things, I was angry at my girl for not being aware of me (not taking notice that I really wasnt into the female), part of it had to do with drinking, I was angry at him for knowing what the rules and not respecting them and angry at myself for saying something and ruining the evening for everyone.

Was I right to say something? Did I Overreact? I don't know! I have mix feelings! In conclusion, it was a good experience and I think that it showed us what not to do the next time, and even though it ended on a bad note I think that this experience brought us closer together and the sex has been amazing! I don't get it but its true!

Well I hope I didn't bore you guys and I'm sorry about the grammar, English is my second language. And let me know your opinions about my story and how I handled the situation. Thank you guys!

Lucho and Nicole

A. Before I begin to give advice, I wanted to first tell you that your story was the subject of a hot debate between my husband and me.  We both agreed on the two major issues you faced during your first swinging experience (not being into the other wife and the boundaries you had in place about kissing), but we initially quibbled about which issue took primacy over the other.

My first reaction was concern over your lack of attraction to the other wife, and your willingness to “take one for the team” so that your wife and the other husband could enjoy their time together.   I had two thoughts about this: 1) You should have been honest and upfront about your disinterest about the other wife, and perhaps not even played with this couple at all.  At the very least, letting your wife know about the inequality of chemistry would have made her more in-tune to you and your growing discomfort later when the boundaries about kissing were pushed.  I have taken one for the team more times that I would like to admit, and it has never been a pleasant experience.  Thus, my “Danger, Will Robinson!” alarms go off when I see or hear of anyone making this same mistake.  2) If you had been into the other wife, you may not have felt so threatened and defensive when the kissing rule was put on the line (this still would not have excused the other husband’s disregard for your rules and boundaries).  You may even have been willing to break this same rule you were fiercely protecting if you had been with someone you were also tempted to kiss.

My husband, on the other hand, thought the lack of chemistry between you and the other wife was secondary.  He was, rightfully, outraged (as was I) by the behavior of the other husband, who blatantly disrespected your one rule about no kissing.  My husband repeatedly said that no one should ever change rules “mid-stream” because everyone is much too hot and distracted to think clearly about the consequences.  We think that the biggest contributor to your dismay at the question of kissing was that no one was truly honest about how they were feeling and what they wanted. Your wife should have been more direct about her desire to kiss the other husband than just giving a “whatever” response.  You should have flatly explained what you wanted and didn’t want, and been firm with the other husband about the no kissing rule.

Really, this is something that you and your wife should have discussed as a couple, privately, before playtime began.  You could have frankly told her, “Look, I’m really not that into the woman, but I know you’re having fun.  I am excited to have our first experience.  Just please realize that I may want to pull the plug at a time that seems premature.”  You should not feel bad about cutting things off when you did (or how you did).  Everyone reserves a veto to be used at any time for any reason.  The clearer you are the better.  Don’t expect your partner to understand subtle eye movements or leg squeezes.  You need to be brutally honest about the rules in all play situations, and you need to stick them—absolutely no changing the rules or straying from them mid-way through the action.  You can discuss changing them when you are removed from the moment, and you may find that many rules you initially had will go out the window after your first experience.

The other husband was a complete jerk for even asking you and your wife to throw out your no kissing rule and putting the pressure on your wife to give in.  Your wife should also have stood her ground, knowing that this was a rule that was agreed upon before playtime even began.  My husband and I both think that it was incredibly gracious and sensitive of the other wife to step in and support your no kissing rule.

My husband and I have a couple that we play with who have a no kissing rule.  While we don’t like that we can’t kiss this hot couple, we would never ask them to change this rule in the middle of a hot moment.  It is one thing to ask for something you want that no one has discussed before (“ooo, wouldn’t it be hot if you were over here and she was over there, and then we…”).  However, it is absolutely NOT COOL to ask specifically for something that has already been taken off the table (and it was ESPECIALLY NOT COOL that the other husband was trying to sneak kiss your wife.  GRRRRRR!).

Bottom line?  You (or your wife, or someone else you are playing with, or anyone in the lifestyle at all) can use veto power at any time—and your partner needs to be able to handle that.  The other husband is clearly at fault in this situation.  However, you and your wife need to seriously re-evaluate  whether or not you want to play with this couple again (I would strongly suggest no), and how you will try to avoid finding yourself in a similar experience in the future.  Certainly this was a learning experience for you, and I am sincerely glad that you were able to take positives away from your first experience.  But please please please talk with your wife and make sure that you are on the same page from here on out.  If you feel that you want to try kissing on your next date with a couple, then try it out.  But also remember that if you feel uncomfortable mid-kiss you can always take a step back, put on the brakes, and clear your head. It is better to go home with your wife giddy and delirious and fuck each other’s brains out because you are so turned on by what you just did (and didn’t do), than to finish the evening feeling hurt and full of regret.